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Talk:Irelia/@comment-86.82.178.97-20120412230750/@comment-4957501-20120417165657
I'm not "a closed minded person who goes by the book", I just think people are clearly trolling when they try to play heroes like Master Yi as AP or Burst mages such as LeBlanc as AD. If they actually argue about the effectiveness of the build later, it's then I just plain consider them stupid. I'm not just saying it won't work for the sake of saying it, I'm saying it because there are so many holes in your theorycrafting it resembles a vegetable sieve. You're supposed to be the bruiser in your team, but for some reason you're playing as AP. You weren't even in top lane? How did you even manage to farm all those full items against a regular pushing, harassing AP mid like Karthus or Ziggs? Fine, presuming you were AP mid Irelia (lets just ignore how utterly ridiculous that sounds), and for some reason you managed to farm perfectly easily against terrifying regular AP mids even with your ultra weak early game, yes, your team also has bruisers and CC...... that doesn't change that you're 1. One of the most high priority targets because you decided to play AP mid. 2. Clearly aiming to go for the most important member of the enemy team 3. Literally the most squishiest champion in your team, because you have absolutely ZERO defensive items 4. Right in the front lines, along with the tank and the bruiser. Except you know, they're only about 4x tankier than you are and the damage in the bruisers case is mostly sustained, not hit and run burst. Right, so is there still a reason by this point that makes you think you're not going to be the first person to be mercilessly focused and shut down? The support is in the front lines with the bruiser? lolwut? Unless it's Taric or Alistar, that's not going to happen, unless Soraka tank is another brilliant new-meta idea? "But once you get to the carry they have to go through the cc of your team and to their carry while your carry is killing everyone. So basically if you get to the carry once a teamfight is initiated there is hardly any protection." So wrong. I don't know what elo you're playing at, but people actually stick to their roles at decent elo. The Alistar usually doesn't scream "F*** THIS SHIT I DON'T WANNA DIE I'LL BE IN THE BACK", he'll be in the front lines trying to disrupt and be as much of nuisance as he can. Same thing with your team. If you're in a decent game, they'll have the common sense not to blow their CC on the Shen running around doing absolutely shitty damage trying to be a nuisance, I'm presuming they're going to have the common sense to save it for the burst AP Irelia that's going to try to jump their carry a few seconds after the tank initiates. You're not even getting my argument, I said Talon can do everything your AP Irelia can do, except much more better. Lol I didn't say he's a god AD carry. Talon is no AD carry. :/ I said he's a prime example of the burst assasin you're trying to be and failing, and Irelia has decent burst no doubt, but playing her your way is increasing the burst by just about 20-25% compared to her normal build but in exchange completely destroying her sustained damage, already making her useless after assasinating someone (if she even manages to) and then on top of that building so excellently squishy she's just begging to be CC'd and instagibbed. Also, just for your reference, one of the prime examples among the assassins in this game, Talon, just go to his page in this wiki and see his reccomended build in the comments section, by people who actually main him. Trinity Force, Maw of Mal, Banshee's Veil are all common full items. Everybody needs defense at the point of the game you're talking about to simply not be blown up instantly because of the insane damage flying around. There are no exceptions, especially not Irelia, even with her immensely healing blades that'll heal all of about 400 hp on her. That's the reason even then Talon will never be as weak as the Irelia you've come up with. "Bruisers will deal more damage than AD carries at any given time." Congratulations, you just completely changed the entire class of bruisers for everyone ever, and nobody even realizes it. You're telling me, that the champions that purposely farm all game to get super items and have AD and AS steroids or atleast range to maximize the efficency of those items late game....... can still never 1vs1 a bruiser. At any point of the game. Ever. You not only out tank and out armor enemy carries with Shyvana in your game, you also have a higher damage output?...... you know what, I'm not even going to bother with this one lol. "I have seen GP players owning Full build AD carrys shile their build has Atmogs, mercs, IE, LW, and a bloodthirster. How is there any chance of outdpsing that kind of GP for an ad carry?" What game are you playing? Is this some kind of secret mod where you simply take whatever items you like and put them on any character when the match starts? If an enemy team actually let a GP ever farm that much, they deserve to lose. Why? Because the f****** solo top managed to out farm the enemy carry for some odd reason....... for more than 50 minutes. The build you gave up top, other than the atmogs, is a full AD carry build Sir. In proper games the bruiser's going to be able to farm that much in about 1 out of every 200 games, and even if it somehow gets to that point of the game, the enemy carry would've had their full build about 20 minutes before you did. At least. Sion. It doesn't sound like a lot of HP regenerated, but it's going to be more than your TB's yes? Hitting targets of 150+ armor? Golly, I guess everybody builds defense right...... except for AP Irelia ofcourse. No defense except high HP and shield.......... that's quite a lot of defense, and what's your point? That's more HP, lifesteal and one more shield than you'll have as your AP Irelia isn't it? Lol. And pray who tell me has a stronger early than the bruiser? That AD carry? Or maybe the support? Or maybe the squishy AP mid? I've said countless times before, Irelia's early is known to be weak. Yorick, Olaf and Mundo actually have strong early games. Do you know how hard Parrrley hits it for it's mana cost and CD, on top of applying his poison passive? Skarner is a jungler. Shyvana is usually played as a jungler too, and since when is she ever weak? Tryndamere is already considered OP enough at mid and late without having a strong early too, thanks. Nasus's early game isn't strong, but it isn't weak either, nor does it need to be strong. All you need to do is stay in lane and farm up Siphoning Strike and your Trinity, then you'll be out tanking the tank with your ultimate and dps-ing nearly as much as the carry. It seems I'm the one who should know my facts. Who exactly are you comparing bruisers to when you say that most have weak early's? Shyvana.... what's your point? Yeah, like you said she does have a CC. Does she need 2 to be a viable bruiser? Does she need 2 dashes or initiators to be a viable bruiser? Are you capable of not poking holes into your own arguments? Bruisers are exactly like I've said they are. And it's more their ability to build tanky yet still retain their damage that makes them bruisers. The word "bruiser" itself is self explanatory. Try opening a dictionary. She doesn't need all their CC's. At that point of the game with 0 defense, she needs just one, even equating her tenacity as a factor. People play assasins yes, but assasins like Akali are meant to be played different from Assasins like Irelia. LeBlanc and Ziggs are meant to be played alike. Nor are Sona and Alistar. Just because they have the same tags, doesn't mean they're same kind of hero. The tags are very general and also widely regarded as very inaccurate by most of the LoL community. LoL would be pretty boring if they were all 5-6 different types of hero yes? :) LeBlanc's as good a carry as traditional hypercarries....... because she has the same range? wut? She has no steroids but a reliable escape? Hey, might just be me here, but I'd rather have a carry whose better at you know, DEALING MORE DAMAGE THAN RUNNING AWAY, you know, keeping in mind that they're supposed to be the goddamn damage in your team. Congratulations, you rooted Graves for 4 seconds..... oh but what's that! look! he's still attacking you! and even though you have the same items, he's attacking 80% faster and therefore nearly doing double his damage compared to you! Oh shit, well, maybe next time AD LeBlanc. "Look at AD kennen top team picked AD kennen because of the same reasons Lb is a viable AD carry." Further proof that you don't even know what you're talking about. First of all, the number of fail AD Kennen's I've seen in Solo queue is astounding, to the point it actually makes me happy when I see an AD Kennen in an opposite team. Just because Genja managed to play Kennen AD, doesn't mean everyone else can. Genja is Genja. Also, you seem to have no idea why Kennen is viable as an AD carry in the first place, because if you did, you wouldn't have said something stupid like the reason for LeBlanc being a viable AD carry is the same. Kennen is a viable AD carry because of his W scaling extremely well with AD, his R doing immense teamfight damage even without building AP (ideally stunning all 5 enemy champions for one second and dealing 630 damage to each at level 3, and that's without building AP) and above all his ability to stun easily using his passive. None of which LeBlanc has, if you haven't figured it out yet. "I have seen 2200+ Elo players play AP kog while he is usually counted as an AD carry(they played to great succes) IMO AP Ez is better than AD. The thing is, the way you play a champ is not limited to the AP/AD ratios of the abilities they have" The last sentence made me laugh, considering you just contradicted yourself. Kog'Maw has AP scalings on all 4 of his abilites, 3 of which are nukes. What were LeBlanc's AD scalings again? Ezreal AP is also a perfectly viable build, anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot considering he has AP scalings on all 4 abilites, 3 of which scale incredibly well. Ezreal is one of the few champions that building both AP and AD or even hybrid with are all considered viable. This was never about the meta, I don't recall bringing the meta up at all? This is about your build being a troll build. You could build Irelia AP, I never said you couldn't. I just said that building her as a bruiser is much more effective than building her AP and that even if you do build her AP, there are other champions that will do her job much better than her, with better scalings, better nukes and better abilities and utility than her. I stand by what I said.